Legislature(2007 - 2008)HOUSE FINANCE 519

01/30/2008 01:30 PM House FINANCE


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ HB 260 STATE OFFICERS COMPENSATION COMMISSION TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 260(STA) Out of Committee
+ HB 284 PFD ALLOWABLE ABSENCE: FELLOWSHIPS TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 284(FIN) Out of Committee
+ HB 296 EXTENDING BOARD OF PAROLE TELECONFERENCED
Moved Out of Committee
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
HOUSE BILL NO. 260                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     An  Act  relating  to  a   State  Officers  Compensation                                                                   
     Commission   and  establishing   how  legislators,   the                                                                   
     governor,   the  lieutenant   governor,  and   executive                                                                   
     department heads shall be  compensated; providing for an                                                                   
     effective  date  by  repealing the  effective  dates  of                                                                   
     certain  sections of  ch. 124, SLA  1986; and  providing                                                                   
     for an effective date.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE  DOOGAN, SPONSOR, spoke in  support of HB
260, based  on the only  successful salary commission  in the                                                                   
State of Alaska.   The Commission was active in  1977 & 1979,                                                                   
when  citizen   members  of  the  Alaska   Salary  Commission                                                                   
released reports on how much certain  public officials should                                                                   
be paid.   The original Commission  had a broader  scope than                                                                   
the one presented in HB 260.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Since  1979,  there has  not  been  a comprehensive  look  at                                                                   
compensation of members above  a certain level.  HB 260 would                                                                   
establish  a  compensation  commission   consisting  of  five                                                                   
members appointed by the Governor.   Former legislators would                                                                   
be prevented  from serving on  the commission until  they had                                                                   
been  out of  office for  four  years.   Members would  serve                                                                   
staggered  terms   and  would   be  assigned  to   reconsider                                                                   
compensation every two years.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Doogan explained  that the  decisions of  the                                                                   
Commission would  become law unless specifically  disapproved                                                                   
by the legislature within 60-days  of receipt.  The effective                                                                   
date  of  the  actions  would  be  tied  to  the  legislature                                                                   
appropriating funds.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:46:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Doogan pointed  out that  in the House  State                                                                   
Affairs  (STA)   Committee,  Representative   Coghill  voiced                                                                   
confusion if the vehicle for enacting  the findings should be                                                                   
a resolution or  a bill.  He pointed out the  memo from Legal                                                                   
Services explaining the decision to place it in bill form.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Stoltze  questioned if the task of  the Commission                                                                   
would be  similar to  that of  the task force  recommendation                                                                   
for passing gambling.   Representative Doogan  thought if the                                                                   
issue  was  left   to  legislators,  there  would   never  be                                                                   
consideration for  fear of constituent  disapproval.   In the                                                                   
past,  it was  determined  that  a citizen  commission  could                                                                   
work.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Stoltze  informed that  the Gaming Commission  had                                                                   
attempted to  insulate members from the  political pressures.                                                                   
Representative  Doogan responded  that legislators  are never                                                                   
insulted   from  political  pressures;   however,   the  bill                                                                   
attempts  to provide an  "even-handed"  look at the  process.                                                                   
It is  political at  every stage  of the  process.   Co-Chair                                                                   
Meyer said that the Anchorage  Assembly does use a Commission                                                                   
as proposed and that it works well.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:50:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hawker  addressed the philosophical  component                                                                   
of the legislation.  Previous  testimony indicates that there                                                                   
had been  intent, resulting in  action to raise  the salaries                                                                   
of the  Legislature.  He  wondered if the legislature  should                                                                   
be   a   choice  for   public   service   without   receiving                                                                   
compensation,   acting  more   like   a  volunteer   service.                                                                   
Representative  Doogan stated  the bill  was not proposing  a                                                                   
plan to do anything particular  with legislative salaries but                                                                   
rather proposes creating a commission  of citizens to look at                                                                   
the question  in a  more even way.    There  are a  number of                                                                   
ideas the commission could determine  such as a system paying                                                                   
for  longevity  of members.    He  emphasized his  intent  in                                                                   
sponsoring  the legislation  is  to create  a discussion  and                                                                   
reviewing arena.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:53:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker  understood  that  the intent  of  the                                                                   
legislation  was to  increase legislative  compensation.   He                                                                   
asked if that was true.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Doogan  explained that  in  order  to have  a                                                                   
legislature  reflecting  the population's  age  balance,  the                                                                   
State would  have to offer  higher compensation.   He pointed                                                                   
out   that   legislators   in   their   50's   &   60's   are                                                                   
overrepresented and  that those in their 20's &  30's are not                                                                   
adequately represented.   He discussed  that if  salaries are                                                                   
increased, there would be a change  in the age and make-up of                                                                   
the legislature.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:54:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hawker commented  if that was the intent or if                                                                   
rather more of an exploratory  outcome. Representative Doogan                                                                   
believed the  discussion is about  what might  happen through                                                                   
passage of the legislation.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker  referred   to  Page  5,  regarding  a                                                                   
recommendation that the Commission  "may not" have the effect                                                                   
of reducing  compensation or  benefits of  someone who  is in                                                                   
office;  he  asked   if  that  would  apply   to  legislative                                                                   
salaries.     Representative  Doogan  advised   that  he  had                                                                   
attempted to keep the Legislature  out of the bill as much as                                                                   
possible.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker  referenced   Line  17,  Page  5,  the                                                                   
"policy  of legislature  that  the commission  recommends  an                                                                   
equitable rate  for legislators."  He asked  what "equitable"                                                                   
meant.  Representative Doogan  replied the definition was not                                                                   
attempting to determine compensation.   Representative Hawker                                                                   
suggested  it  should  be  equal  treatment  under  the  law.                                                                   
Representative  Doogan  said   yes.    Representative  Hawker                                                                   
advised  that the  language  is stating  exactly  what it  is                                                                   
intended.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:57:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
In   response   to   a   query    by   Representative   Gara,                                                                   
Representative Doogan expected  that if the bill were to pass                                                                   
that there would  be compensation determined  by longevity of                                                                   
legislators.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer clarified if the  intent of the Commission was                                                                   
to   look   at   how   other   States   handle   the   issue.                                                                   
Representative  Doogan informed  that  the handout  addresses                                                                   
other state's policies and procedures.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:00:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Nelson   made  clear   that   to  offer   no                                                                   
compensation  for  the  legislative   positions  would  be  a                                                                   
disincentive to people considering  whether to run for office                                                                   
or not.  She  thought that there would be  a disproportionate                                                                   
number of  wealthy and  retired people  holding office.   She                                                                   
hoped  to  encourage  more  variety  of  candidates  to  step                                                                   
forward.  She thought  that the 90 day session  makes it more                                                                   
appealing,  providing more  time for  other employment.   She                                                                   
mentioned that the  legislation to move the  capital was also                                                                   
being  put  forward  as  an  opportunity  for  better  public                                                                   
participation while  serving in the Legislature.   She stated                                                                   
she did not support that legislation.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Nelson reiterated  that it  is wrong  to have                                                                   
more rich  and retired  people doing the  work for  the State                                                                   
and that it is  better for the legislative body  to have more                                                                   
variety in who serves.  Representative  Doogan wholeheartedly                                                                   
agreed.   He  added that  many  people are  kept from  public                                                                   
office  because  of  their obligations  in  life  versus  the                                                                   
compensation offered.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:03:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Thomas  commented on his determination  to run                                                                   
for public office and the losses  incurred personally because                                                                   
of the number of special sessions,  affecting his livelihood.                                                                   
He  noted  that it  actually  him  approximately $70  to  $80                                                                   
thousand dollars  per year.   He hoped  the process  would be                                                                   
better controlled through a public commission.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Meyer agreed that  it is  out of  the hands  of the                                                                   
legislators.    He  noted  in   California,  legislators  are                                                                   
salaried at $110 thousand dollars  per year but that they are                                                                   
not allowed to hold any other job.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Stoltze agreed that  the ideas presented have been                                                                   
intriguing.    The  founders  of  the  Constitution  did  not                                                                   
establish criteria for legislator's salaries.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:08:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
NICKI NEAL,  DIRECTOR, DIVISION  OF PERSONNEL, DEPARTMENT  OF                                                                   
ADMINISTRATION,   offered   to   answer  questions   of   the                                                                   
Committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:08:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PUBLIC TESTIMONY CLOSED.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Kelly believed  that there is no easy solution                                                                   
to the  issue of a  citizen versus professional  legislature.                                                                   
He  personally leaned  toward  a citizen's  legislature.   He                                                                   
remembered  a  previous  salary   proposal  of  $94  thousand                                                                   
dollars  per  year.   He  encouraged  the natural  &  healthy                                                                   
tension remains in  place.  He believed that  moving toward a                                                                   
higher salary,  determines a decision to have  a professional                                                                   
legislature in place.   He hoped that whichever  decision was                                                                   
made, it would work well & fluid.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:13:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Meyer agreed  that the current  system is  working.                                                                   
He hoped that when the Commission  does looks at other states                                                                   
of a similar size  & issues, they would be able  to determine                                                                   
that Alaska does not offer or need a full time job.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative Crawford  acknowledged there is  no accounting                                                                   
for who  the public  chooses to  represent  them.  He  agreed                                                                   
that the  compensation issues  should be determined  from non                                                                   
legislative  persons.    He indicated  his  support  for  the                                                                   
legislation.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker voiced confusion  on the issue,  which                                                                   
raises philosophical concerns  on both sides of the argument.                                                                   
If the desired  outcome is to increase  legislative salaries,                                                                   
the  legislation  is the  way  to accomplish  that;  however,                                                                   
handing the responsibility  off to a public  Commission could                                                                   
provide too  much legislative  authority to  that group.   He                                                                   
recommended it be discussed through  the legislative process.                                                                   
He noted  that the  recommendations of  the Commission  could                                                                   
take  the effect  of  law unless  a  bill is  introduced  and                                                                   
objection  made by  the Legislature.   Representative  Doogen                                                                   
understood that  the recommendations  would be a  bill, which                                                                   
would have  to be disapproved  by the Legislature  within 60-                                                                   
days.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hawker stated that  was not clear in the bill.                                                                   
Representative  Doogan agreed.    He added  that the  central                                                                   
fact is  that if the Commission  determines a  higher salary,                                                                   
the effective date  of that recommendation would  be when the                                                                   
appropriation  passes.   The dollars  would not be  available                                                                   
until  an  appropriation  passes.    Ultimately,  it  is  the                                                                   
Legislature's responsibility to fund it.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker stated  it is "complex  effectiveness"                                                                   
and  thought   that  as  a   Commission,  they   should  make                                                                   
recommendations so that the elected  policy body can make the                                                                   
decision.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:18:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Doogan  said that  had  been  discussed.   He                                                                   
believed it puts it back in the  hands of the legislature and                                                                   
then they  would determine the need  to pass or not  pass the                                                                   
bill.                                                                                                                           
Representative Nelson commented  that the current method used                                                                   
is  that of  the federal  rate of  per diem.   Whenever  that                                                                   
amount is increased,  the press broadcasts it;  however, when                                                                   
it  decreases,  it is  never  publicized.   She  agreed  with                                                                   
Representative Doogan and doubted  if the issue would ever be                                                                   
addressed  up by the  Legislature.   She remembered  when the                                                                   
per  diem  actually  increased  and  how  that  affected  the                                                                   
public's perspective.   She maintained  that the  present pay                                                                   
rate for  legislators is  good and that  compared to  jobs in                                                                   
most districts, it pays well.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:22:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Thomas assumed  that the bill intended to keep                                                                   
a  citizen's legislature.   Representative  Doogan  responded                                                                   
that the  idea was not  to debate whether  it would  remain a                                                                   
citizen's legislature.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Thomas  added that  if  the  public does  not                                                                   
think their  legislator is  doing a good  job, they  will not                                                                   
re-elect them.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:24:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Meyer noted  the back-up  materials indicating  how                                                                   
other states  determine compensation, pointing  out that most                                                                   
do  have  a commission.    He  reiterated  that he  had  been                                                                   
involved is  a similar system  when working on  the Anchorage                                                                   
City Council and  was comfortable with the  approach proposed                                                                   
in the legislation.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Meyer  referenced the  fiscal note.   Representative                                                                   
Doogan  explained that  the  request in  the  amount of  $7.5                                                                   
thousand dollars  would cover travel and per  diem costs; the                                                                   
salary is zero.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:26:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Stoltze  MOVED to  REPORT CS HB  260 (STA)  out of                                                                   
Committee  with  individual  recommendations   and  with  the                                                                   
accompanying fiscal  note.  There being NO  OBJECTION, it was                                                                   
so ordered.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CS HB  260 (STA)  was reported  out of  Committee with  a "no                                                                   
recommendation" and with fiscal  note #1 by the Department of                                                                   
Administration.                                                                                                                 

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